vBulletin brand ruined by Internet Brands management

[AnthonyCea]

Here is a blockbuster announcement, Ray Morgan has resigned from his job as General Manager of vBulletin, this is what I have called for and why I was banned from the official vBulletin forum.

Quote:

Sincere thanks to the vBulletin community!

Greetings all,

As some of you know, my wife and I own property in Central America and have worked for the last few years toward building a home there. We are now in a position where we can begin construction, and that will require a lot of time on site and a great deal of travel.

Since my role in vBulletin can't reasonably be filled from 3,000 miles away, the time has come for me to transition various responsibilities to my teammates. I will be with Team vB through this Friday, December 11.

These changes will not directly affect vBulletin customers. The rest of the team remains intact, and the most important things are not changing:

Kevin Sours will continue to run vBulletin's large Engineering group, with backup from Joe Rosenblum, Internet Brands's CTO.

Don Kuramura will continue to be responsible for Product Management, strategy, and business development.

Steve Machol will continue managing the Support team, with backup from Jennifer Rundell, Internet Brands's VP of Content.

The path to building 4.0 out the door has been incredibly exciting, and all the more so to have done it alongside such a smart and dedicated team. (Each of them has a standing invitation to visit Lake Arenal!)

vBulletin is in very capable hands. The imminent release of 4.0 is just the beginning of some very exciting things ahead. The Internet evolves quickly, so in addition to new things like the Content Publishing Suite, Team vB are working on even bigger expansions, like products and services for big-board customers, vB for mobile, and more.

Again, a heartfelt thank you to the vBulletin community for all of your support.

[AnthonyCea]

In this blog comment posted by: Jim on November 28, 2009 at 1:12 am

Jim goes on to say that holding company Internet Brands, Inc. and subsidiary vBulletin Solutions, Inc. broke EU laws.

http://www.thelawprofessor.com/vbull...upgrade-offer/

Quote:

I have spent a huge amount of time in consultation regarding the legality of IB practices. The legal advice seems to be the following;


The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 implements the EU’s Unfair Commercial Practices Directive and introduces a general prohibition on businesses not to treat consumers unfairly and obliges businesses not to use:

• aggressive practices (such as pressure selling); nor

• misleading practices (includes both acts and omissions).

One of the key tests in the Regulations is whether the commercial practice in question materially distorts the consumer’s economic behaviour (e.g. was the consumer persuaded to make a purchase they would not otherwise have made because of the commercial practice?).

A breach of the Regulations is, in most cases, a criminal offence.

[AnthonyCea]

Big news in this ever developing vBulletin 4 software soap opera produced by Internet Brands, Scott MacVicar one of the former lead developers of vBulletin has come out with his side of the story on why he resigned after Internet Brands, Inc. purchased Jelsoft.

He mentions that he felt isolated in the UK along with his co-developers when Internet Brands moved the responsibility for software development to managers in Los Angeles, in addition the vBulletin development team in England lost inspiration when Internet Brands stopped planned progress on a rewrite of the software to take vBulletin in a different direction.

[AnthonyCea]

Kier, the former lead developer of vBulletin comments in this blog post about the dissatisfaction of the UK development team after Internet Brands purchased the forum software producer Jelsoft.

[AnthonyCea]

Here is a vBulletin forum customer with major concerns about the software development process at Internet Brands vBulletin Solutions division.

He goes on to wonder why legitimate customer suggestions are commonly ignored by vBulletin managers !!

There has been a lot of talk, discussion, and emails exchanged within our organization concerning the vBulletin suite. After this announcement and following a number of threads related to the vBulletin 4 Suite, we called an official meeting. We actually discussed what it meant to our business model if vBulletin ceased to the best social networking product for our company or our clients---something that none of us EVER considered.

While it forced us to develop a contingency plan, we felt it time to express some concerns.

While we are exciting to hear that the development and work on the future forums and CMS are moving along swiftly, we find it surprising that there are a number of threads on the vBulletin forum with unanswered questions.

We also understand you have generated a number of presales for this software, setting a number of sales records within your organization (congrats on the milestone), and existing customers may be getting a little ansy because they want to get something for their money. However, it is disconcerting, to say the least, to think that this gold release MAY be rushed according to what the industry considers a gold release.

At the same time, there is what we perceive a growing number of existing customers with multiple licenses (many with established businesses and Big Board forums), like us and our clients, who are growing disgruntled that our needs and concerns are being ignored.

[AnthonyCea]

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?331721-Do-you-think-vB-is-ready-for-the-Gold-release

[Ninjatiamat]

Yeah vbulletin is not ready. There's a well known saying "you can polish a turd but it will still be a piece of shit" which vbulletin is. Here's a few quite true quotes that backup what I mean.

Off the top of my head, IPB features the following, which isn't available by default with vb

* Facebook connect
* Profile status updates
* OpenID support
* Official Gallery application (purchased separately) if you decide you need it
* Official Download Manager application (purchased separately) if you decide you need it
* Access to our spam monitoring service, helping you to combat spam through collective collaboration from all customers
* True multi-file uploading for attachments

The one thing IPB has that I wish vbulletin had is their search box in the admin panel
You know how on google and yahoo if you start typing something, it'll try and guess what your trying to type. The IPB admin has something very similar for the admin controls.. Like if you start searching RSS, it'll pull up RSS import, RSS export for you, so it's very easy to learn the backend with the new search bar.

In the grand picture there are striking differences actually. How about a proper, fully integrated gallery? Vbulletin is about 5 years behind on that one. How about a blog application that is well integrated and people actually enjoy using it? How about a CMS framework that allows core forum functionality to be extended into any app you could conceive of? And finally, and most importantly, how about a staff that is passionate about, and invested in, the product they are creating?

Theres a reason many of us have switched from VB already. You aren't the only old-school VB user around these parts.

[AnthonyCea]

Welcome to the forum, glad you stopped by with your input.

This situation is very grave for multiple license owners who have a stake in running vBulletin software, all we want is the ability to update our version 3 software without getting raped and beaten into purchasing vBulletin version 4 by Internet Brands, Inc.

This was my major demand on the official vBulletin forum before they banned me (AVC is my user name over there), I assume it was Ray Morgan who banned me when I suggested on the forum that this was a Titanic in nature failure because they were not allowing us to simply renew our existing owned licenses to update our forums to the latest version 3.

I am on the record over there telling everyone to run their current vBulletin 3 forums until the script turns to dust or until Internet Brands provides an incentive for multiple license holders to renew their version 3 licenses so we can get security updates.

[AnthonyCea]

Thanks for the offer vBulletin, but no thanks, I'm not buying this software, in fact if you gave it to me I would not take it for free, I don't trust the code, the design, or company management.

Quote:

The vBulletin team is very excited to announce the availability of vBulletin 4.0 Gold. The release includes vBulletin 4.0 Forums and the all-new vBulletin 4.0 Publishing Suite. As of this week, these are officially supported products that are eligible for both ticket support and phone support.

The 4.0 Gold release is the result of huge investments in development resources, rigorous new development and testing procedures, and unprecedented levels of customer input throughout the development process. We’re very grateful for the continued support and passion the vBulletin community has displayed throughout the development process.

Customers can download vBulletin 4.0 from the customer area at http://members.vbulletin.com.

Thank you for your support of vBulletin, and enjoy vBulletin 4.0 Gold!

[AnthonyCea]

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332644-vB4-Gold-Refund-Question!

Quote:

vB4 Gold Refund Question!

I purchased vB4 Gold Publishing suite 2 days ago. I payed for professional installation. I'm still waiting for the installation!

I would like to know if it is possible for me to get a full refund?

I am a total newbie to vB and I was unaware of the fact that I was buying software that is still in trial version with loads of bugs. For the price I payed (which may not be alot to some of you out there but is to me) I expected I was buying into a product that was well known, tested with no kinks!

I do not see the point in buying software and having to wait 6 months for the developers to sort the bugs.

So is there a possibility I can cancel my order and receive a full refund?

I am never saying I will not return to vB in the future but at this point in time, I do feel cheated and I cannot afford to spend so much money on a board that does not fully work. I only have to read the forum posts here to realise that.

If anyone thinks I'm being unreasonable I apologise but I don't have money to burn!

[AnthonyCea]

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332656-Refund

Quote:

Refund

I am sure that had any of you JelSoft developers paid for something as incomplete and buggy as this software you would be asking for your money back.

How to I go about requesting my money back for your 4.0 license?

This has to be one of the wonkiest pieces of code I have seen yet. DO you guys have a Bar for Gold releases? Or was this so you could release on the date you stated?

Horrible

[AnthonyCea]

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332614-Questions-I-would-like-to-see-Joe-respond-to

Quote:

Questions I would like to see Joe respond to:

vbulletin 4 gold was released today and despite assurances that "the software is stable, robust, and ready for production environments" it appears to be far from it. There are various individual concerns out posted around the forums and as of 4:30pm EST, 11 pages of confirmed bugs, 28 pages of bug scrubs, 32 pages of bugs that have yet to be confirmed and more growing by the hour.

I'd like to hear what Joe has to say about this and what he is going to do to help fix this especially when maintenance releases will be monthly starting February and we have a ton of problems out there.


Question 1: What is IB doing to augment to current resources allocated to development and bug squashing? How soon will that happen?

Question 2: The CMS has queries ranging into the 200+ range, how is this not a show stopper and what is being done to correct this with the interim releases in January?

Question 3: Ray Morgan stated numerous times that IB's extensive team of developers would be carefully reviewing the code to ensure a quality release. Furthermore, we were advised that IB had external resources lined up to review the code as well. What happened to these resources and why did they fall short in this release?

Question 4: What is being done, going forward with the interim releases, to ensure no further bugs are introduced and bugs that are fixed remain fixed.

[AnthonyCea]

Answer: Buy a vBulletin version 4 license !!!!


An exploit in our input validation has recently been discovered. This could allow a brute force attack to comprise and spoof input data for a given user. To resolve this issue, it is necessary to release a patch level version of the active versions of vBulletin.

The upgrade process is the same as previous patch level releases - simply download the patch from the Members Area, extract the files and upload to your webserver, overwriting the existing files. There is no upgrade script required.

As with all security-based releases, we recommend that all customers upgrade as soon as possible in order to prevent any potential damage resulting from the flaw being exploited.

If you are already running 3.7.6, 3.8.4 or 4.0.0, the process you will be required to follow to make your board immune to this flaw is very simple.

There is no need to run an upgrade script if you are already running the latest version.

Visit the Patches section of the vBulletin Members' Area (http://members.vbulletin.com/patches.php) and download the patch for the version you are using, then extract the files from the archive you downloaded, then upload the files to your board via FTP etc., overwriting the existing files. This will update your version to the latest patch release.

Upgrading from an earlier version

If you are not already running 3.7.6 or 3.8.4, you should download the latest version from the Members' Area and perform an upgrade as normal.

Full instructions for upgrading vBulletin are available here. Download vBulletin 4.0.0 PL1 / 3.8.4 PL2 / 3.7.6 PL 2
http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/upgrade

As usual, the version released today is available for all customers with valid, active licenses to download from the vBulletin Members' Area.
http://members.vbulletin.com

Here is the key problem facing all vBulletin version 3 license owners who want security updates and patches, Internet Brands forces you to accept the vBulletin version 4 license agreement below, before you can download the update patches or security update scripts.

vBulletin 4.0 Software License Agreement

This Software License Agreement (this "Agreement") is between you (either an individual or an entity, referred to hereinafter as "you" or "your") and vBulletin Solutions, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Internet Brands, Inc., and its affiliates ("vBulletin Solutions", "we", "our" or "us") for the vBulletin 4.0 software that accompanies this Agreement, as may be updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or maintenance releases (the "Software") and any services that may be provided by vBulletin Solutions under this Agreement ("Services"). Do not use the Software until you have carefully read the following Agreement.

By installing, copying, accessing, downloading or using the Software (or authorizing any other person to do so) you are indicating that you are 18 years of age or older (any parent or guardian of a person under the age of 18 may accept this Agreement on behalf of a user), are capable of entering into a binding legal agreement, have read and understand this Agreement and you accept its terms and conditions. If you do not agree with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, do not install, copy, access, download or use the Software.

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You may make a one-time, permanent transfer of your rights in the Software to a third party ("Subsequent Licensee"), provided the Software was purchased by you more than 90 days prior to the transfer, that you do not keep a copy of the Software for yourself, the Subsequent Licensee agrees to the terms of this Agreement and the License, and the Subsequent Licensee agrees to assume your rights as a licensee of the Software. You must disclose the domain where you are using (or plan to use) the License, which may be disclosed in the vBulletin registered members area. You may set up one additional temporary test forum for the purpose of testing code, template and database modifications. Such a test forum must be password protected, and not made available to the general public at any time.

For purposes of this Agreement, "Software" includes (and the terms and conditions of this Agreement will apply to) any updates, updated or replacement features enhancements, bug fixes or modified versions (collectively, "Update"). "Update" means a release of the Software which adds minor functionality enhancements to the current version. This class of release is identified by the change of the version number to the right of the decimal point, i.e. 4.1 to 4.2. Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, you have no License or right to use any such Update unless, at the time of acquiring such Update, you already hold a valid License to the original Software and have paid any applicable fee for the Update.

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You may not use the Software to engage in or allow others to engage in any illegal activity. You may not use the Software to engage in any activity that will violate the rights of third parties, including, without limitation, through the use, public display, public performance, reproduction, distribution, or modification of communications or materials that infringe copyrights, trademarks, publicity rights, privacy rights, other proprietary rights, or rights against defamation of third parties.

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The Software is licensed to you by vBulletin Solutions for use only under the terms of the License. vBulletin Solutions reserves all rights not granted to you. The Software in its entirety is protected by U.S. and international copyright laws and treaty provisions. vBulletin Solutions owns and retains all right, title and interest in and to the Software, including all copyrights, patents, trade secret rights, trademarks, service marks and other intellectual property rights therein. Your possession, installation, or use of the Software does not transfer to you any title to the intellectual property in the Software, and you will not acquire any rights to the Software except as expressly set forth in this Agreement. All copies of the Software made hereunder must contain the same proprietary notices that appear on and in the Software, including all Software copyright notices embedded in any design template which must remain unaltered from the original and visible at all times. vBulletin is a trademark of Jelsoft Enterprises Limited ("Jelsoft") in the U.K. vBulletin™ is a trademark of vBulletin Solutions, Inc. in the U.S., with registration pending. Jelsoft and vBulletin Solutions are subsidiaries of Internet Brands, Inc..

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THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS-IS," AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, VBULLETIN SOLUTIONS DISCLAIMS ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, BY STATUTE OR OTHERWISE, REGARDING THE SOFTWARE AND ANY RELATED MATERIALS, INCLUDING THEIR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, THEIR QUALITY, THEIR MERCHANTABILITY, OR THEIR NONINFRINGEMENT. VBULLETIN SOLUTIONS DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE OR ANY RELATED SERVICES OR CONTENT IS SECURE, OR IS FREE FROM BUGS, VIRUSES, ERRORS, OR OTHER PROGRAM LIMITATIONS NOR DOES IT WARRANT ACCESS TO THE INTERNET OR TO ANY OTHER SERVICE THROUGH THE SOFTWARE. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES, SO THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IN THAT EVENT, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES ARE LIMITED IN DURATION TO 30 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF PURCHASE OF THE SOFTWARE. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS. YOU MAY HAVE OTHER RIGHTS, WHICH VARY FROM JURISDICTION TO JURISDICTION. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE RESULTS, QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE SOFTWARE IS WITH YOU.

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Revised: 10/5/2009

[AnthonyCea]

Here is a vBulletin software customer blogging about the unfair licensing scheme Internet Brands dumped on existing customers.

[AnthonyCea]

More vBulletin version 4 software customer feedback !!

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332614-Questions-I-would-like-to-see-Joe-respond-to&p=1883319&viewfull=1#post1883319

Quote:

Why you ignore all this Bugs and Problems? It is not 1 Bug or 100 Bugs.........We have to fight with 1000 Bugs. The CMS is the last Crap, the most things in it will not work. Sample RSS or please create a Article in IE6 or IE8,in your Wonder CMS then you will see, what for crap you have us sold.

Please go Home rent a Server and install your Software on the Server and make a own Test. Then you will see, who fast your CMS is. I can go in the Kitchen and make me a coffe, if i visit the CMS on my Site.If i come back to my PC the Site is finish with loading.

The Forum is Ok, with them iám happy,here are only small bugs. With them i can live. But the CMS...........is crap crap crap......

Joe my Question is : When we become the High Quality, from that you speak always? And the next Question is : Why you publish so a Crap, why you have not worked longer at the Product and make it stable?

[AnthonyCea]

vBulletin forum software customers still revolting and there is nothing Internet Brands can do to stop the bloodletting, this disaster has doomed the vBulletin brand, but I was telling folks this months ago (back in October when Internet Brands changed the licensing scheme) !!

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332858-The-Most-Important-Thing-About-VB4-Is-The-PRICE

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332858-The-Most-Important-Thing-About-VB4-Is-The-PRICE&p=1882442&viewfull=1#post1882442

It is not that expensive if we would get a state-of-the-art SOLID product, but unfortunately... IB has delivered a beta product and named it Gold. Not worth this high price in any way, indeed. (Mind you: I have been suggesting a price increase for years if that would mean a faster development speed. Now, we are presented with a faster speed, but with an enormous loss of quality...)

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332858-The-Most-Important-Thing-About-VB4-Is-The-PRICE&p=1883506&viewfull=1#post1883506

I've been working with VBulletin for many, many years, however I purchased an 'owned' copy of vB back in May after leasing for a year for my smallish forum. There's no way I'm dishing out ANOTHER $200 just so I can keep it current. vB 4 has very few new features, and reportedly is buggy as all hell. My forum has no ads, and all money comes directly from my pocket.

The competitors are looking more appealing each day.

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332858-The-Most-Important-Thing-About-VB4-Is-The-PRICE&p=1885214&viewfull=1#post1885214

Point is that we users or customers can not get chance to renew vb3 licenses, for some another prices! But inestead we are pressed to purchase new products if we want that our products still works, and that is robbery and against law.

If i want go to store and buy windows xp - nobody can press me that i must buy windows 7 or windows vista or that i must buy throught license agreement from different product! And i do not care who is owner of store, or say to me that my windows xp will not work if i do not buy windows 7!

That is shame for vbulletin and against all customer rights!

Do not buy this throught this robbery policy!

This is sad, very sad, and what most vBulletin version 3 software owners do not realize is the fact that Internet Brands wants them to give up all their rights under the old vBulletin license by agreeing to new terms under the vBulletin 4 license before allowing them to download security updates and software patches.

LOL !!!

[AnthonyCea]

LOL, vBulletin (Internet Brands) is still attempting to fool and defraud customers, but it obviously is only working on novices and the uninformed.

quote:

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332166-Article-Should-I-upgrade-to-4-0-or-wait&p=1881661&viewfull=1#post1881661

Originally Posted by kateido
vb 4.0 sucks.
its ugly. i will not upgrade.

Not only ugly, but I am the only one feeling treated like crap?

I have several owned licenses...

I pay a yearly fee on top of that to get upgrades...

And now they are telling me I have to BUY the new version...

Greedy bastards, I will switch to another software on my sites before I take it up the rear like that...

NO THANKS!

Speaking of GREEDY, $300 a year for PHONE SUPPORT!!!

Damn... that is included in all other software I bought...

[AnthonyCea]

vBulletin software customers question the quality of the software development process itself and the coding of vBulletin version 4.

Quote:


vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332614-Questions-I-would-like-to-see-Joe-respond-to&p=1886122&viewfull=1#post1886122

It's fine and dandy to me if those few hundred queries are completely efficient queries, but thus far all the queries running back and forth suggest to me that the existing queries are completely inefficient.

Regarding the query count Joe, do you have any actual performance data that can back up your claim that the current query count is a misleading and that a vBulletin 4's CMS would not be bringing down servers for having 100 concurrent users? Or perhaps 1000 users? How about 5000 users? As they say, cheap is talk. Show us your testing variables, your testing environment and what was done to perform tests.

It's great that you're running several smaller queries. However at the same time, other factors must be considered, such as how many concurrent connections could a user have to a SQL server. Until such data is provided to alleviate our fears, this is totally hypothetical and theoretical. Stress testing is very much a part of QA.

Furthermore, I think you're also confusing the issue here. Page rendering is one matter, but so is query count. For me, query count is completely backend with no variables coming from an end-user's computer. With page rendering, we need to factor in an end-user's computer because they have multiple variables, including what browser they run, what type of javascript engine is utilized, bandwidth of a user, and so forth.

Therefore Page-Rendering itself is quite subjective. It encompasses factors that are sometimes uncontrollable. However, queries are completely independent and manageable by developers. They supply the necessary building blocks to do page rendering in the first place.

Lastly, looking at QA, I respectfully disagree. I feel it is a very naive assessment and that to believe your claim would essentially be wearing rose-colored glasses. I've done a lot of QA in my lifetime. I still do QA for several Fortune 150 and 500 companies. I've learned a lot during the QA process and that includes not everyone can do QA. As I go through doing some of my standard mis-use cases, I am finding things that should have been caught were not caught during the QA process. My standard list is also very shallow. Given the finite time I have right now as I am rebuilding a series of sites and in my studies, I've yet to attempt some of my more complex bag of tricks I use for QA to break things.

Lastly, If I was your lead QA tester, and Internet Brands released vBulletin 4 in this current state, I would be extremely embarrassed. I would not even want my John Hancock on it. Bugs are always going to be there and I know that first hand. But I can't ignore what my own personal experience tells me and that is this entire project has been completely mishandled and that there are far too many bugs for me to sign off on a release.

[AnthonyCea]

A web designer comments on the disaster that is vBulletin version 4

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?325235-IF-you-ve-gone-public-with-vb4-beta-Lets-see-your-skinning-results!&p=1886023&viewfull=1#post1886023


Quote:

I spent more time fixing this in IE6 (and it still has problems) and going the extra mile to get what I want than any other software I have used. StyleVar is a joke and a HUGE hurdle to true designers.

I had to live by Firebug in order to find what styles went where, what to change manually in the css code and what to change via the StyleVar.

vBulletin has made the designing process a true chore, it is no longer fun, but pain-staking.

Congrats vB you have your new 4.0 software, it doesn't have tables. That's about all you have accomplished in my view, the view of a designer.

[AnthonyCea]

If the new fraudulent vBulletin licensing scheme isn't enough to make customers switch to new forum software platforms the code base and the software development process seals the deal for sure !!

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?331978-Vbulletin-3-owned-license-owner&p=1884729&viewfull=1#post1884729

I am a long-time vBulletin owned-license customer and I current am on vBulletin 3.6.x. When I purchased, I was given the indication that I could download security updates perpetually by using the renewal option. Within three years, things have changed so much.

It seems utterly incredible that we aren't even allowed to download security updated versions at a lower cost. Why was the $40 (earlier it was $30) membership renewal option removed.

I earn zilch from my forum as advertising revenue is getting very scarce these days and I see no reason to continue using a software like vbulletin which wants me to pay for even small updates. I am absolutely not interested in vbulletin 4.0. There should be a lower price for continuing with vBulletin 3.x series at least!

When I purchased, I thought I would have the option to download security updates without paying the full price of the new version every time.

I am utterly disappointed in this policy change over the years. No longer you seem interested in retaining old customers. Really sad state of affairs.

[AnthonyCea]

LOL, more customers learn of the new bombastic Internet Brands licensing scheme for vBulletin software !!!

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?331978-Vbulletin-3-owned-license-owner&p=1884829&viewfull=1#post1884829

Even though I like VB as a whole, I upgraded 2 of my licenses, for other two decided to keep with 3.8 itself because of this high cost. No disappointments or complaints here as a company they have decided to go ahead with this pricing model but as an end customer, it is not sustainable for me to upgrade all. So decided to use other forum software for one, and the next one need to decide whether to upgrade or find other forum software.

[AnthonyCea]

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?331978-Vbulletin-3-owned-license-owner&p=1885970&viewfull=1#post1885970

Nobody can change our original buy/sales agreement, and every change from one side is against law!

That is what vbulletin maked!

That is crime!

[AnthonyCea]

The message is the same one I gave back in October....

Don't upgrade to vBulletin version 4 at all, do not give up your contractual rights under your vBulletin version 3 owned software license, you give up all your legal rights when you accept any new downloads from Internet Brands, even a security update or version patch. You must accept the new vBulletin version 4 license before you update or you will not be able to download the files.

Wait for the lawsuits against Internet Brands, Inc. to be filed and settled.

quote:

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?333739-4-0-upgrade-DON-T-DO-IT-if-you-have-any-Mods-and-probably-don-t-do-it-period!&p=1887312&viewfull=1#post1887312

I just upgraded one of my slower forums and I'm in total agreement. It not worth the time and definitely not worth the ridiculous amount of dollars they are asking.

I have smilies issues and I had to disable all mods. I feel as if I have been rip off on the purchased of the Blogging software as I can't use it unless I pay for CMS which I do not want. In addition, I lost all of my custom templates and I can't create new templates unless I do a full upgrade.

I see a few changes in the control panel, other than that....It would make more sense to stay with 3.8. I can't even get a Paypal mod so I can request donations to help with cost. So for me....I'm sticking with 3.8 for a long time and I'm looking for a way out of using vbulletin in the future.

This entire transition reminds me of a Nazi takeover and I want no parts of that.

[AnthonyCea]

Here are more long time vBulletin forum software customers jumping to a new software platform, this time it is Invision Power Board.

Whatever task Internet Brands was trying to accomplish with vBulletin it seems to have backfired in the largest possible way when old and faithful customers completely abandon ship.

http://community.invisionpower.com/t...st__p__1894071

Ian O, on 30 December 2009 - 02:01 PM, said:

I would like to add to this thread.

I have been a paying customer on vBulletin since November of 2001. I am one of the oldest customers of vBulletin, and have been using them since before it cost anything to use them, having made the switch from the old Ikonboard written in CGI (shivers).

They've managed to bork vB4 up enough to make me consider switching. I can maybe understand those people who have been using for a couple years wanting to switch, they haven't lived with vBulletin for a good chunk of their lives. However, I've lived it, worked with it, edited it, and find myself probably more knowledgeable than most.

And I'm willing to sacrifice that, to perhaps switch to IPB.

Depends on how your skinning works. vB4 now (smartly) uses CSS but all the classes are listed ALPHABETICALLY instead of GEOGRAPHICALLY, so you don't know where anything is... you have to go through each class trying stuff out to try and figure it out. Oh sure, I can use firebug... but there are old classes that exist that they didnt get rid of, so when you try to edit it, you can't find it in the damn editor.

How exactly does your skin editor work? If I like it, you've got an (almost) decade old customer of vB willing to switch to IPB.

I was with vbulletin from the beginning. Followed the discussion on Scriptkeeper when a php/mysql product was the most requested product at Infopop. When they disallowed John from posting about his idea on Scriptkeepers I followed it to the forum he created at EZBoard. I bought one of the first licenses to vbulletin 1. My userid at vbulletin is 52 joined in April of 2000. Joined the first day the vbulletin.com site opened.

I am no short timer. I am leaving vbulletin completely before 2010 is over. I have chosen IPB for many reasons with the main being that I trust IPS will always put the customer first. That used to be true with vbulletin. It isn't any longer. The mighty dollar is more important to them now.

I am not the only long time user leaving either. If you want to put your trust in a company that has shown they don't care about customers and a product that was released as buggy as v4 is then IPB is not the place for you. If you want a customer first attitude and rock solid software then IPB is the place for you. I'm a IPB newbie and still learning. Yes I was comfortable after using vbulletin for 10 years. I will be comfortable with IPB soon also. I am already comfortable with the company and the support. The rest will come in time.

[AnthonyCea]

Here is an astute vBulletin customer who does understand that Internet Brands, Inc. is legally liable for breaking the terms of the vBulletin 3 software license.

As I have been telling all vBulletin version 3 license owners...

DO NOT FALL FOR INTERNET BRANDS LICENSING FRAUD, DO NOT UPDATE TO VERSION 4 OR DOWNLOAD ANY ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE BECAUSE YOU MUST AGREE TO THE NEW SOFTWARE LICENSE TO DOWNLOAD SECURITY UPDATES OR PATCHES, WAIT FOR THE LAWSUITS TO BE SETTLED !!!

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332614-Questions-I-would-like-to-see-Joe-respond-to&p=1892163&viewfull=1#post1892163

Nonsense, the vb4 licence is totally different to vb3. A VB3 owned licence you can run for ever if you wish, the country of jurisdiction is UK, vb4 you can only run and get updates until vb5 is released, jurisdiction is the USA. By buying vb4 you in no way surrender your vb3 owned licence. They are two totally different products, two different licences. The one copy you refer to is one copy per licence.

Now I see what you are up to, http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...=1#post1880970

This is a change in the terms and conditions of the licence; my advice is that you do not agree to this. Forcing you to change terms to gain access to an update for vb3 which you are legally entitled to is illegal under UK contract law. A contract cannot be changed after the agreement has been entered into. Terms can be changed after the expiry of a contract, however, to deny access to updates unless you agree to transfer to another contract is a material breach.

What most vBulletin software customers DO NOT UNDERSTAND is the fact that Internet Brands, Inc. is DEFRAUDING THEM AND FORCING vBulletin version 3 license owners into the new vBulletin version 4 licensing terms when they download a security update or a version 3 patch.


Quote:

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332614-Questions-I-would-like-to-see-Joe-respond-to&p=1893143&viewfull=1#post1893143

You really don't have a clue about the legality of the vb3 licence, your above comments demonstrates this. Since I purchased vb2.1 right up until vb3XX I only paid an annual renewal fee, this allowed me to get access to the latest version of vb and security patches. You guys changed the whole ball game, vb4 was not sold as a renewal it was a whole new licence, a new product in which customers had to pay the full price (discounted or not), customers had to purchase this new licence, therefore the vb3 licence is still intact. What was it Steve said "Renewals are gone" To get round this you tried to get folks to agree to a vb4 licence to download patches for the vb3 product, intimating that the two are the same, clearly this is not the case and you know it. And it’s about time you guys stop treating customers as idiots.

If I purchase a vb4 forum licence at $195 I will still run my vb3 site as this is not a renewal. If you have an issue with this then you are free to take whatever action you see fit, however as my vb3 licence is under UK jurisdiction I look forward to seeing you in a UK court.

[AnthonyCea]

There are a few vBulletin software customers who understand they are giving away their legal rights when they accept a software update from Internet Brands, if they would have listened to me back in October they would have never given up their legal rights to their vBulletin 3 forum software.

This massive deception is another cause of action in future lawsuits against Internet Brands, Inc. since it is highly fraudulent and illegal.

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332614-Questions-I-would-like-to-see-Joe-respond-to&p=1892205&viewfull=1#post1892205

You don't have a leg to stand on in the UK, for those who have upgraded as IB term it, you have signed away your right to your vb3 licence.

Today I tried to download vb3.8.2, seems I have to agree to the vb4 licence, as I do not have any right to download vb4 why are IB attempting to force users to change their licence including terms and conditions? Why is IB withholding legal access to vb3 updates unless those with an active licence agree to the new vb4 licence T&C's.

[AnthonyCea]

Here is another one of many reasons for vBulletin version 3 license owners not to update to vBulletin version 4 on top of the fact that they give up their legal rights under the vBulletin version 3 owned license when they update.

quote:

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?332656-Refund&p=1883065&viewfull=1#post1883065

I understand that, however we are talking about semantics and perception. The OP wants a refund because of the state of the system. It isn't usable on mid sized and larger sites without mass overhaul or mass server upgrades. The OP deserves to expect a 'buy, install and run'. Some people feel that is unreasonable and tha they should only see vB4 as a set of tools that they have to rework before they can use it. That is moronic.

So, turnkey it may not be, but toolkit it certainly shouldn't HAVE to be.

And for what its worth, the CMS is in shambles. If you think 200+ queries for 1 page is fine, then more power to you. It would break most mid sized sites on an average dedicated server.

[Ninjatiamat]

lol give them time they may wind up finding a way to cut those 200+ queries down to just a measly 50!!! Only problem is you'll have to wait a year or 2

[AnthonyCea]

Here is more inside information on forums moving to Invision Power Board from vBulletin, the thread also discusses the very real legal threat Internet Brands, Inc. faces from a class action lawsuit based on the fraudulent software licensing changes forced on forum software customers.

[Ninjatiamat]

Too bad for this user and I'm glad I didn't upgrade to vb4.0 yet on my forums

Well, I was looking forward to rejoining the vB fold.

Count me amongst those who purchased this product on the strength of Jelsoft's reputation. I had no idea they had been sold, lost many of their key people. I have been involved in forums since 2001, and owned a fairly busy "hobby" site for the last 5 years. We ran that one on the competitor's software, but before that I had run vB.

When a friend showed me the demo for the new Suite, I was impressed. I had tried in the past to set up a site related to my business and was unable to attract enough people to make it work. The articles system was just what I needed. With all the blocks already laid out and fairly good instructions I felt I could have it up and writing articles very quickly. It was going gold in a day and I needed to act fast to get in on the deal. I bought it and felt I had a product that could help me attract business in this sad economy.

I should have done some research. I know better. I started to get a whiff of what is going on here when I visited the vBAdvanced site. Sour grapes, I thought. I went ahead and installed it to my site and had nothing for the front page. It wouldn't import the default settings. Bad start. OK, as was said earlier, this is a point 0 release. .0.1 release was due, today. Moved back a few days, I now see. No guarantee this particular problem will be addressed, but I hope so. I see potential for this product, but I am not sure I will be able to wait around for it.

As I said, this is a business investment. I am up against time and money. I have no older software to fall back on and even if I did, it is the CMS/ Articles System that I need. I have to get some interesting content available before I go live. I need to go live ASAP.

All in all, this is a very expensive piece of software. It is not capable of running a live site on at this time, IMO.

I know when to hold em and I know when to fold em. There are other alternatives out there and that is why this was rushed to gold. If it was still in beta, I would certainly have thought long and hard before making this purchase.

It was a mistake purchasing this product without thoroughly investigating it's readiness. It may turn out to be a wonderful piece of software, in fact I believe it will. If some bugs are worked out,it should be able to create a beautiful site. But time is commodity that I have precious little of and I am dubious that this product can beat the clock for me. I am stuck with it for now and am willing to wait a bit before switching to another product.

But given all the information I now have, I seriously doubt I would have made this purchase.(my bad) I hope the team can pull this out of the fire, I have an investment that I can't afford to lose. If not, I may have to fold em...............

[AnthonyCea]

Here are more opinions of the vBulletin 4 social networking/CMS/forum software package by forum owners.

[AnthonyCea]

Just think folks, if you would have all listened to me and would have followed my advice you would not have to learn the hard way, you guys should have been reading this forum, specifically this very thread.

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?333739-4-0-upgrade-DON-T-DO-IT-if-you-have-any-Mods-and-probably-don-t-do-it-period!&p=1911150&viewfull=1#post1911150



Hate to say it, but there is a lot of truth to this. I upgraded to 4.0 and have taken a never-ending stream of grief from my members ever since. I have been using vB for years and have never hesitated before installing a gold product. My experience with vB has been quite good all things being equal. Until 4.0. This latest version has so many bugs and poorly designed features that I'm afraid that from now on I'm going to be a lot more cautious about vB products. I have way too much time and effort invested in my forum to see it wrecked.

[AnthonyCea]

vBulletin 4 styling issues are still causing concern with web developers

vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?338990-Post-Your-Successful-vB4-CMS-Sites-Here!&p=1916938&viewfull=1#post1916938

The recurring problem I see with vB4 is that all the sites look the same. The customization that existed in vb3 is gone. A site could be running vb and you didn't know most of the time. But now - All the menus are the same, just different colors, the login area is terrible and 'clunky' looking.

The 'look' of the web has become cleaner and vb4 is cluttered and hard to follow. It goes in the exact opposite direction the rest of the web has been flowing. Links and fields everywhere, with no good integration. You shouldn't need 3 links all going to the same profile page. I re-upped my subscription so I could move to vB4 once they got it right, but I have yet to see anyone who is happy or has integrated it well into their site. vBadvanced still does a better job using vB3 IMHO.

[AnthonyCea]

LOS ANGELES, CA -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 01/29/10 -- Internet Brands, Inc. (NASDAQ: INET) will announce financial results for the fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2009, on Thursday, February 18, 2010, after the market close. Participating in the call will be Bob Brisco, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Scott Friedman, Chief Financial Officer.

The conference call is scheduled to begin at 1:30 pm Pacific Time (4:30 pm Eastern Time) on February 18, 2010. Participants may access the call by dialing 877-941-8416 (domestic) or 480-629-9808 (international). In addition, the call will be broadcast live over the Internet hosted at the Investor Relations section of the Company's website at www.internetbrands.com and will be archived online within one hour of the completion of the conference call. A telephone replay will be available through March 4, 2010. To access the replay, please dial 800-406-7325 (domestic) or 303-590-3030 (international), passcode 4206148.

About Internet Brands, Inc.

Los Angeles-based Internet Brands, Inc. (NASDAQ: INET) is a leading Internet media company that owns, operates and grows community and e-commerce websites in the automotive, careers, health, home, money and business, shopping, and travel and leisure categories. With a flexible and scalable platform, Internet Brands operates a rapidly growing network of more than 200 websites, of which more than 90 each receive greater than 100,000 monthly unique visitors. In September of 2009, the company's websites received 48 million unique visitors. More than 96% of the traffic to the company's websites is from non-paid sources.

[AnthonyCea]

Here we have more vBulletin forum owners moving back to UBB.threads forum software.

This is no doubt a great option for vBulletin forum owners wanting to change forum software as UBB threads is making remarkable progress on software license price reductions and in upgrading the script since the original developer took control of the company recently.

[AnthonyCea]

LOS ANGELES, CA, Feb 18, 2010

(MARKETWIRE via COMTEX News Network) -- Internet Brands, Inc.

(NASDAQ: INET)

-- Record Revenues: $27.7 million in fourth quarter

-- Record Adjusted EBITDA: $11.8 million in fourth quarter, year-over-year
growth of 21%

-- Net Income: $4.3 million in fourth quarter, $0.09 per diluted common
share, year-over-year growth of 40%

Internet Brands, Inc. (NASDAQ: INET) today reported financial results for the fourth quarter and full year ended December 31,
2009.

"We are very pleased with our financial results and the on-going success of our business model," said Bob Brisco, CEO of Internet Brands.

"Our performance during this past year once again validated the hallmarks of our business: our ability to organically attract large audiences of high value consumers and our unique operating platform that monetizes these audiences
extremely well."

Fourth Quarter Operating Results

Total revenues for the fourth quarter of 2009 were $27.7 million compared to $27.0 million in the prior year period.

Consumer Internet advertising revenues increased by $2.0 million in the fourth quarter of 2009 as compared to the prior year period, driven primarily by growth from websites in the Company's Home, Auto Enthusiast, and Careers verticals.

The increase in advertising revenues was offset by a $3.3 million year-over-year decrease in automotive e-commerce revenues due to continued weakness in consumer demand for automobiles.

Excluding automotive e-commerce, revenues from websites owned more than a year organically grew by approximately 13% as compared to the prior year period.

Overall, Consumer Internet revenues were $17.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2009 compared to $18.8 million in the prior year period.

Licensing revenues were $10.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2009 compared to $8.2 million in the prior year period.

The increase in licensing revenues was primarily the result of the successful fourth quarter launch of the Company's vBulletin 4.0 publishing suite.

Net income for the fourth quarter of 2009 was $4.3 million, or $0.09 per diluted common share, compared to net income of $3.1 million, or $0.07 per diluted common share, in the prior year period.

For the fourth quarter of 2009, Adjusted EBITDA grew 21% to $11.8 million from $9.8 million in the prior year period.

Adjusted EBITDA margins in the fourth quarter of 2009 expanded 640 basis points year-over-year to 42.7%.

The Company's EBITDA margins have continued to expand as a result of the shift from lower margin automotive e-commerce revenues to higher margin
advertising revenues and from the continued leverage derived from the Company's common operating platform.

Total monthly unique visitors to the Company's network of websites grew to a monthly average of 50 million in the fourth quarter of 2009, a 22% increase from 41 million in the fourth quarter of 2008. In January, unique visitors increased to 56.5 million.

In each period, more than 97% of the traffic to the Company's websites was derived from non-paid sources.

Management Comments

"Since our IPO two years ago, spanning a very difficult period for advertising and auto markets, we have grown our full year 2009 EBITDA by 43% from 2007," said Bob Brisco, CEO of Internet Brands. "We believe our advertising revenues will continue to outperform the industry in 2010 due to the strong results we generate for our more than 40,000 vertical market advertisers."

Brisco added, "We also expect to continue to expand our audience reach through a combination of highly accretive acquisitions and through organic growth initiatives that are building our content, growing our communities, and strengthening our brands."

[AnthonyCea]

LOL, successful launch of vBulletin version 4.0

PS: These guys are cooking the books, any investor in their right mind would take a large short position on Internet Brands, Inc (INET).

If you believe these numbers (financial report), you also believe that vBulletin 4.0 was a successful software product launch !!

PS: Profits rising on fraudulent software licensing schemes are short lived, when vBulletin customer lawsuits hit Internet Brands, look for this company to fall flat and for the stock to see panic selling !!

PPS: Investors, don't say you were not warned here first !!!



Internet Brands Q4 Profit Rises

(RTTNews) - Internet Brands Inc. (INET) announced that its fourth-quarter net income was $4.3 million or $0.09 per share, compared to net income of $3.1 million or $0.07 per share, in the prior year period. Total revenues were $27.7 million compared to $27.0 million in the prior year period.

Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters expected the company to report earnings of $0.08 per share on revenues of $27.65 million for the quarter. Analysts' estimates typically exclude special items.

For the year ended December 31, 2009, Net income was $12.4 million, or $0.27 per share, compared to net income of $11.6 million, or $0.26 per common share, in the prior year.

Total revenues for the year ended December 31, 2009 were $99.8 million compared to $104.0 million in the prior year.

Analysts expect the company to report earnings of $0.25 per share on revenues of $99.71 million for fiscal 2009.

The Company expects first quarter 2010 revenues to be approximately $26.0 to $26.6 million and Adjusted EBITDA to be approximately $10.0 to $10.5 million.

For the full year of 2010, the Company expects revenues to be approximately $112.0 to $118.0 million, representing year-over-year revenue growth of 12- 18%.

Yeah, and Enron was making big money too guys !!!

[AnthonyCea]

Bob Brisco needs to learn what successful means, the only thing he is successful at is hyping up his stock and spinning a story (making shit smell good magic).

What he does not address are the vBulletin Version 4.0.2 Xss Vulnerability, the thousands of bugs in vBulletin's clunky version 4.0 script and the vBulletin software licensing fraud complaints against Internet Brands, Inc.

Mr. Brisco and his legal team will be forced to address these issues in a court of law when class action lawsuits are filed against Internet Brands, Inc.

[AnthonyCea]

Here is a great blog post on the 79 days since the release of vBulletin 4 by an expert and long time vBulletin software customer and forum owner.

PS: Hard to believe that folks are actually counting the days since Internet Brands ruined vBulletin forum software !!!

[AnthonyCea]

Here is another upset vBulletin 4 customer who demanded a refund for the bug infested script Bob Brisco calls a resounding success in the latest earnings report, Brisco will stop at nothing to pump up Internet Brands (INET) on the NASDAQ stock exchange, including pathological lying directly to investors as well as defrauding vBulletin customers.